5,230,148
If the buyers knew they were going FHA and presented as a conventional buyers AND the lender 'lied' for them, the seller should keep the EMD.
The lender should be reported as well.
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Byron K . Jones
Coatesville, PA
-
Diana Zaccaro Broker A...
Cocoa Beach, FL
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Mike Cooper, Broker VA,WV
Winchester, VA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Olga Simoncelli
New Fairfield, CT
-
Jeff Dowler, CRS
Carlsbad, CA
-
Joan Cox
Denver, CO
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brenda Mayette
Glenville, NY
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Rocky Dickerson
Las Vegas, NV
2,436,470
So you checked with the lender and the lender confirmed it was conventional? But it hadn't been? Geez. Maybe one of our mortgage ActiveRainers can weigh in.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Candice A. Donofrio
Fort Mohave, AZ
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Rocky Dickerson
Las Vegas, NV
-
Shayne Stone
Fulshear, TX
508,318
This just goes to show you why a good lender is imperative. This lender's error, whether deliberate or accidental, cost the client their EM. Perhaps their chance to become a homeowner. This lender must be held accountable.
In Arizona we require a pre-qual that is signed by the loan officer and the buyer. If the loan program changed the Buyer should have notified the seller. This mistake should never happen.
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Diana Zaccaro Broker A...
Cocoa Beach, FL
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Candice A. Donofrio
Fort Mohave, AZ
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brenda Mayette
Glenville, NY
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
1,042,933
In my opinion if the buyer and lender deceived the seller by saying this is Conventional when in fact it was FHA, they are lucky to only lose Earnest Money Deposit. I could be wrong but with fraudulent intent a possibility of lawsuit for additional damages could be a possibility.
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Candice A. Donofrio
Fort Mohave, AZ
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Olga Simoncelli
New Fairfield, CT
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Rocky Dickerson
Las Vegas, NV
3,345,111
How does one prevent deception and dishonesty?
More information, please?
Are you the listing agent or did you represent the buyer?
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Anna "Banana" Kruchten
Phoenix, AZ
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Shayne Stone
Fulshear, TX
-
Chris Ann Cleland
Gainesville, VA
-
Pete Xavier
Pacific Palisades, CA
1,543,853
Fraud is fraud. If they lied what could you have done? Keeping the EMD was the right move, they were dishonest.
The only thing I think would have tipped you off sooner was the appraiser.
When you speak to the appraiser always confirm that they are conventional, FHA or VA.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Candice A. Donofrio
Fort Mohave, AZ
-
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Rocky Dickerson
Las Vegas, NV
-
Thomas J. Nelson, REAL...
La Jolla, CA
4,693,775
It sounds fair that the seller kept the ED since the buyer was deceptive and did not perform according to the contract, am I missing something? You were the listing agent? If the buyer is unable to perform, then they are unable to perform, how could you do anything to prevent that?
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Diana Zaccaro Broker A...
Cocoa Beach, FL
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Joan Cox
Denver, CO
1,311,497
"What else could I have done to prevent this?" How about some basic honesty on the part of the buyer and agent and honesty or competency on the part of the lender.
I totally agree with Debe Maxwell, CRS
and...
You do not succeed by deception. Dishonesty by the agent needs to be punished. Buyer loses EMD and what happens to the agent? I think there is also an ethics issue that could be pursued.
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Diana Zaccaro Broker A...
Cocoa Beach, FL
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Joan Cox
Denver, CO
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
5,217,375
The terms of the contract dictate! Seller keeps earnest money and may have other legal rights against the buyer and lender.
-
Diana Zaccaro Broker A...
Cocoa Beach, FL
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
6,393,609
Keep the deposit for sure, may go beyond with a complaint to the lenders boss.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
2,781,293
Fascinating at what can go wrong even for the experienced....
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Brenda Mayette
Glenville, NY
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
7,836,431
Follow the terms of the contract.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Anna "Banana" Kruchten
Phoenix, AZ
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
3,383,334
Here's a question....if you knew it was FHA, would your sellers have passed on the offer? If the answer is no, I think the wind up to the docs condition is irrelevant.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Brian England
Gilbert, AZ
-
Chris Ann Cleland
Gainesville, VA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Shayne Stone
Fulshear, TX
2,062,255
I always call the buyer's lender to confirm details on their preapproval. If I'd done that... would the lender have told me it was FHA?
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Mimi Foster
Colorado Springs, CO
-
Joseph Domino 480-390-...
Scottsdale, AZ
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
921,504
Your question is 'What else could I have done to prevent this."
So, no need to comment of Fraud and misrepresentation.
My Practice has always been to talk to the lender and confirm type of loan, qualification of buyer and if assistance is REQUIRED as opposed to desired.
YOU DID THAT.
Any change after that is 'buyer preference' and puts their deposit at risk.
What remained for you was better co-operation with the other agent.
I have often encountered the agent, buyer and lender all telling a different story and taking the initiative to talk to the lender can get the buyer side folks in an uproar. "I don't want you talking to my lender!!!"
Once that is heard, move to the next buyer.
I do not know that you could have done more.......except, when you took the listing, bring on board a lender who has the ability to close fast. That gives you the option of, "If your lender can't do it try mine."
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
1,844,301
well, I think the lender had the biggest hand in that. The BA must have been in on it also. I do a lot of FHA in my area & what condition couldn't the buyer come up with?
Smells fishy .....
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
5,772,575
Karen,
You have great answers. Honesty is still the best policy. A
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KAREN FUNK
Elk Grove, CA
-
Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
5,868,565
If the deal was written conventional, and could not close as CV, Sellers should retain the EM. However, this may differ in each State. In CO, buyers can terminate if not happy with the loan, but if it is different than written, out of luck.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
3,416,038
I always check with the lender before we accept that it is a conventional deal. Even so, it doesnt keep people from not telling the truth. But checking, can heed off 99% of it
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
1,196,798
The first thing that popped into my head is FRAUD! It needs to be reported! We should have no tolerance for fraud. AND I agree with Thomas J. Nelson, REALTOR ® e-Pro CRS RCS-D Vets
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Joan Cox
Denver, CO
-
Thomas J. Nelson, REAL...
La Jolla, CA
693,775
Hi Karen! You always do everything correctly.
Was it a low down payment? If so, maybe a more aggressive questioning of the lender and the buyer's agent prior to accepting the offer followed up by an email confirming what they said. That kind of thinking is so much easier after the fact, though. I am finding that getting any kind of communication lately is almost impossible.
Good luck with getting back into contract quickly with an great buyer!
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Joan Cox
Denver, CO
3,587,960
Karen what position were you? LA or BA? As a broker I have more questions before I'd give my opinion.
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Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
1,052,321
I would report that lender to the banking commission, and then have them committed to the loony bin. In what parallel universe would this NOT be detected? Sad for the buyer if they were complicit, they lose earnest money and whatever due diligence costs and karma.
In AZ, we have a Loan Status Update where the lender updates us on every step of the process. I thought yall had similar in Cali . . .
I thought we were done with crooked lenders!
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
-
Ray Henson
Elk Grove, CA
130,063
We have FHA addendums and disclosures that need to be signed when doing FHA transactions. (mostly common stuff like appraisals will stick, earnest money is returned, condition of home etc etc). Not really sure what other documents couldn't be met, but if we know it's an FHA loan then most times we'll know what could possibly be issues to explain to seller before we accept the deal. (ie Condition of home, or non-FHA approved condos, appraisals are the big 3 here). It's a little different if it was conventional financing and something happend during escrow that forced the lender to switch to fha for some reason. However this usually involves having a discussion, and ammending the contract to allow for it.
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Mimi Foster
Colorado Springs, CO
378,517
who's side where you on? As a buyer's agent I try to have the correct offer although sometimes people switch. But as a seller's agent I call the lender to confirm the contract is accurate with the lender in the first few days.
Hi Mr. Lender, are you currently processing a loan for 123 street for mr and mrs. buyer? Well that's my listing so I just wanted to touch base and confirm they have applied for an 80% conventional loal within 3 days of binding agreement like the contract said. Has the appraisal been ordered? Did you have my contact info for access appointment? Please give me an email so you can keep me in the loop so I can keep my sellers informed of how the process is going. Thanks.
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Doug Dawes
Topsfield, MA
417,221
When appraisal was ordered you as listing agent could have asked what type of appraisal was being completed. The FHA appraisal sticks on the house for a while, subsequent buyer's lenders will see the case number and appraisal. This could harm seller if it came in low. Lender gave you a pre-approved loan as conventional and always intended to do FHA? I feel this is dishonest, BUT MAYBE if I try and believe it's an accident or their back end ratio was too high to get DU or LP approval or income verified came back lower, like they got hours cut or no more bonus on VOE maybe on day two lender realized the deal couldn't go conventional. Debt to income ratio is really the only reason why they would switch during an active contract. Did lender have the responsibility to inform you? YES. Seller might have to pay more fees or tighter appraisal constrictions. What is the reason lender and seller agent gave you for the switcheroo? Don't work with buyer agent or lender again, write a bad review on a public site, ask lender's Regional Manager to kick in $500 moving costs to seller who was harmed by the lying delay
1,026,993
I don't understand for what possible reason this would have "honestly" happened. Were they trying to be deceptive? Was it intentional that they misled you?
2,182,552
763,883
Don't ever remove all of the contingencies until they are met and the other agent demands it.