Greg Cremia (Shore Realty of the Outer Banks)

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Rainmaker
2,814,188
Nina Hollander
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Charlotte, NC
Your Charlotte/Ballantyne/Waxhaw/Fort Mill Realtor

Article 1 Standard Practice 1-3

"Realtors in attempting to secure a listing, shall not deliberately mislead the owner as to the market value."

One might argue that if an agent has told a seller the price is wrong and the seller still wants to list the house at the higher price that the agent's obligation has been satisfied. But the act of taking on the overpriced listing can also be construed as deliberate agreement that the price is viable and thus misleading to the seller that it's achievable. If an agent truly believes a listing is grossly overpriced, why not stand behind the convinction?

Feb 06, 2019 05:51 AM
Rainer
18,268
Kenneth J. Jones
Ken Jones Real Estate Advisor - Toms River, NJ
Broker of Record, SCGREA, SRES

Greg Cremia While listing a property demanded by an owner at a price that may be far different from what the agent suggested isn't usually a wise thing to do, it's DEFINITELY NOT "UNETHICAL."

The word "unethical" is one of those buzz words that's thrown around by the ignorant among us. Another one is "professional."

There are times when seller's have to be SHOWN that their perception of the value of their property is incorrect.

Finally, when I believe a seller has the proper level of motivation to sell, I'm going to list that property at the seller's price with the understanding that there will be a price reduction after a certain period of time and no offers.

Feb 06, 2019 05:31 AM
Rainmaker
650,408
Candice A. Donofrio
Next Wave RE Investments LLC Bullhead City AZ Commercial RE Broker - Fort Mohave, AZ
928-201-4BHC (4242) call/text

I'm with you Greg. If the seller wants to list at a certain price, and the broker advises in writing that seller acknowledges they are offering a price beyond the current market, it's the sellers freaking property and they can do what they want.

Feb 06, 2019 07:01 AM
Ambassador
3,007,190
Debe Maxwell, CRS
www.iCharlotteHomes.com | The Maxwell House Group | RE/MAX Executive | (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
Charlotte Homes for Sale - Charlotte Neighborhoods

If you are a Realtor®, in the Code of Ethics & Standards of Practice, Article 1, 'Duties to Clients and Customers,' "REALTORS®, in attempting to secure a listing, shall not deliberately mislead the owner as to the market value."

It's not about listing at 'their price' but, about 'buying the listing.'

Feb 06, 2019 06:50 AM
Rainmaker
3,026,115
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker - Retired

Just be honest! The next step is up to you and the seller!

Feb 06, 2019 05:32 AM
Rainer
273,688
David M. Dwares
Title Professionals Corp. - Fort Lauderdale, FL
Title guy with a broker license

There is the Code of Ethics and then there is one's own personal ethics.  It's up to each of us to determine if our own ethics are more or less restrictive than the NAR Code of Ethics.

Feb 06, 2019 06:02 AM
Rainmaker
684,315
Doug Dawes
Keller Williams Realty - Topsfield, MA - Georgetown, MA
Your Personal Realtor®

There is nothing that violates our Code of Ethics. Many in Real Estate believe we should be market makers, not market sellers. We are to advise our clients. In the end, the client makes the decision.

Feb 06, 2019 05:35 AM
Rainmaker
2,873,541
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of Manchester NH's Leading Agents

It is not unethical to list a home what the seller wants. There are occasions i am at a listing appointment, i let the know what the value is based on what has sold and they have a higher price in mind. I like to ask how they arrved at that price.  I will take a listing and let the seller know if no offers in 2 weeks we need to adjust the price to where it the comps say it should. I even have them sign a post dated price reduction. Some listings i walk away from when the sellers is not reasonable on price. 

Feb 06, 2019 05:08 AM
Rainmaker
364,204
Dan Pittsenbarger
Keller Williams - Bellingham, WA
Improving Conditions

First don't confuse "Ethics" and "Justice".  Ethics are actions or inactions that one takes on himself, as an individual,  to enhance his survivial. Both as an individual but also as a human being living amongst other human beings on a planet with limited resources. Justice is what happens when someone can't keep their own ethics in. The group takes action to put the ethics "in" on the  guy who can't or won't keep his own ethics in.

Ok enough soapbox. To me there are many many places to refer to. In our state our Agency Law pamphlet has several points:

In the "Duties of a Broker Generally" paragraph b) To deal honestly and in good faith.

So there's that one.

Under the Seller's section it mentions .... taking no action the is detrimental to the seller's best interest.... (again that's seller's best interest).

So whether or not its "Ethical" would depend on the agents motivations and actions. Is he being true to himself and what he believes to be ethical or does he know he's misleading a seller just to get a listing (being selfserving). Or stated another way - if one takes an over priced listing because the seller wants to list at that price is different than an agent intentionally and knowingly falsely telling a seller his home is worth much more just to get the listing (you know, intentionally lying/misleading).

I'll go check the Realtor Code of Ethics just to see if there's anything there. But again a "Code" of ethics would only be code as longs as it is not enforced. Once enforced, it's no longer a code but a rule or law and it's justice not ethics (in my opinion).

If you simply wanted a Code item Nina Hollander gave you the best one. Any deliberate misleading is fairly obvious by most to be a nonsurvival activity in the long run.

 

 

Feb 06, 2019 07:08 AM
Ambassador
1,561,109
Joe Pryor
The Virtual Real Estate Team - Oklahoma City, OK
REALTOR® - Oklahoma Investment Properties

It's a movable feast.

Feb 06, 2019 06:51 AM
Rainmaker
4,701,808
Barbara Todaro
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Franklin, MA
"Franklin MA Homes"

you were not misleading them to get the listing....you told them where it should be.... no code violation.

Feb 06, 2019 06:40 AM
Rainmaker
708,164
Jeff Pearl
RE/MAX Distinctive / LIC in VA - Lovettsville, VA
Full Service Full Time Realtor

What Nina said. And agents aren't always correct in determining value. Sellers, appraisers and agents come up with different values for the same property all the time.

Feb 06, 2019 06:21 AM
Rainmaker
2,380,614
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

Don't know about "codes" to your question but "results" is my standard

Feb 06, 2019 06:17 AM
Rainmaker
1,466,633
Lyn Sims
RE/MAX Suburban - Schaumburg, IL
Schaumburg IL Real Estate

I have also heard that agents 'leading along a seller' at an elevated price just to get the listing is also an ethics violation. I don't care what number violation it is.

After all the ethics courses you have to take in your state, you don't know?

Feb 06, 2019 06:01 AM
Rainmaker
718,016
Annette Lawrence , Palm Harbor, FL 727-420-4041
ReMax Realtec Group - Palm Harbor, FL
Making FLORIDA Real Estate EZ

This is a question with a really good purpose.

Feb 06, 2019 05:38 AM
Rainmaker
4,143,879
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding, Marketing & Strategy

Greg,

Unethical is overstating the issue.  If you present a CMA and the seller has a fixed idea of where the price should be, and an agent takes it at that price, it is not unethical.  My clients may do that with a clear understanding that the price reduction will happen if the home does not sell in X number of days.  If that kind of agreement is not agreed upon, then they move on...There is nothing wrong with that.  A

Feb 06, 2019 07:35 AM
Rainmaker
1,178,637
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
www.HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

The NAR ethics class I took for the NAR requirement, said that "knowingly taking an overpriced listing, that you know will not sell at that price, simply to have a listing and with the hope/intention of getting price reductions later" was buying the listing and a violation of article 1, section 1-3.

 

I don't see this as being applicable if you think the home is worth 800 and the seller thinks it's worth 840 and you agree to take the listing.  I think it's applicable if you know it's worth 800 but you tell them it's worth 840.

 

I don't see your example in the question as being a violation.

Feb 06, 2019 09:41 AM
Ambassador
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Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, Keller Williams fox cities - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

Nothing unethical as long as the seller knows what is going on, the unethical part comes in when an agent misleads the seller and claims that they can get the higher price.

Feb 06, 2019 09:35 AM
Rainmaker
1,475,691
Mike Cooper, GRI
Cornerstone Business Group Inc - Winchester, VA
Your Neighborhood Real Estate Sales Pro

Be honest and explain the potential of overpricing at list. If they still insist, you can choose to walk away or take the listing. There's nothing unethical in that. It may not be a wise decision to take an overpriced listing, but who hasn't done that?

Feb 06, 2019 09:30 AM
Rainmaker
1,485,305
Sandy Padula and Norm Padula, JD, GRI
Realty National - Carlsbad, CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Interesting compilation of conflicting opinions here. I like Richie Alan Naggar 's response the best

Feb 06, 2019 07:36 AM
Rainmaker
1,469,045
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Ward County Notary Services - Minot, ND
Owner of Ward Co. Notary Services, retired Realtor

Don't know what you are talking  about Greg.

Maybe the "ethics" are the agents ethics and not a code. I don't want to sell a house I think is grossly over priced because I don't want my Buyer to get screwed.

Feb 06, 2019 06:29 AM
Rainmaker
2,721,105
Kathleen Daniels
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
San Jose Homes for Sale-Probate & Trust Specialist

What is the expression ... we can lead a horse to water but ..... we can't make it drink it. 

Feb 06, 2019 01:47 PM
Rainmaker
948,408
Kevin J. May
Florida Supreme Realty - Hobe Sound, FL
Serving the Treasure & Paradise Coasts of Florida

In the luxury market the "code" is you're not going to get that listing. In lieu of that happening the agent acquiesces and therein lies the "violation" to all. Unethical, maybe, although I've got nothing to show!

Feb 06, 2019 09:55 AM
Rainmaker
5,072,718
Roy Kelley
Realty Group Referrals - Gaithersburg, MD

The problems arise when the sellers claim they were mislead.

Feb 06, 2019 09:11 AM
Rainmaker
4,749,998
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

I don't think it's unethical.  Depending on the sellers and the price it might be a waste of time and hurt your business.

Feb 06, 2019 07:43 AM
Rainmaker
3,930,082
Joan Cox
House to Home, Inc. - Denver Real Estate - 720-231-6373 - Denver, CO
Denver Real Estate - Selling One Home at a Time

Nina has you covered.

Feb 11, 2019 07:37 AM
Rainmaker
3,937,650
William Feela
WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

I believe I see the answer several times

Feb 08, 2019 08:27 PM
Ambassador
1,590,964
Alan May
Coldwell Banker Residential - Evanston, IL
Helping you find your way home.

You're only breaking the code of ethics if you lead the seller to believe that their listed price isn't unreasonable.

I think the argument can be made that "agreeing" to list at that price is tacit approval that there's some possiblity that you might be able to attain a sale price somewhere near that price.

So, if you think the property is worth $350,000, and the client has asked you to list for $375,000 I think you're okay... assuming that you've explained the the seller that you believe that's higher than we should list... but let's see how it goes.

If, on the other hand, you think it's worth $350,000 and the seller has insisted they want to list for $500,000... and that's the only way I'll give you the listing... I think you are violating Article 1 by agreeing (with the plan in your mind of beating them up for continuing price reductions along the way)...

Feb 08, 2019 10:25 AM
Rainmaker
610,363
John Juarez
The Medford Real Estate Team - Fremont, CA
ePRO, SRES, GRI, PMN

There is no violation of the COE based on the phrasing of your question.

Feb 08, 2019 08:53 AM
Rainmaker
708,416
Olga Simoncelli
Veritas Prime, LLC dba Veritas Prime Real Estate - New Fairfield, CT
CONSULTANT, Real Estate Services & Risk Management

Don't believe there is a specific code that says you can't list at the seller's price.  Check your local laws.

Feb 08, 2019 07:08 AM
Rainmaker
1,792,765
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

SOP 1-3

Feb 07, 2019 12:43 PM
Rainmaker
4,409,306
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

No.

Feb 06, 2019 05:18 PM